• Ben

Show 019

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019. Wisdom Over Experience and Building Yourself First with Daniel Kwak.

This week on the show I chat with Daniel Kwok. Daniel is a real estate investor. He started at the age of 20 with a whopping negative $187 and 65 cents in his bank account. Within three years, he controlled over $5 million of real estate. He’s currently 25 and has 82 rental doors across the country. He owns a real estate investing education company and his YouTube channel has taken off with 50,000 subscribers.

Show Transcription

00:00 This is taste for tenacity. Show number nine. My name is Ben Trela and this is Taste for Tenacity. This week on the show I chat with Daniel Kwok. Daniel is a real estate investor. He started at the age of 20 with a whopping negative $187 and 65 cents in his bank account. Within three years, he controlled over $5 million of real estate. He’s currently 25 has 82 rental doors across the country. He owns a real estate investing education company and his youtube channel has kind of taken off and hit some, some pretty solid numbers at around 50,000 subscribers. Daniel, welcome to the show. 00:48 How are you sir? I’m good. Good. Today’s a really good day. I have a really slow morning, but you know, that’s the beauty of entrepreneurship. You get the freedom to, I’m sorry. You get the chance to earn the freedom to be able to do what you want every single day. 01:05 Yes. And slow mornings are kind of a, a token of success in a way. Yeah. All right, so let’s dive into it. Uwhat did your life kind of look like after Undergrad or excuse me, after high school, did you go into a traditional undergrad program? Did you decide that wasn’t for you? Uwhat sort of did your life look like as you finished high school? 01:31 Yeah, so, you know, I have Asian parents, so they wanted me to go to college. And so I, I ended up going, my, my brother went a different route. So I have an older brother that I run the, this business, so to speak with. And he went to the army and I went into a private Christian school called all of it Nazareen University. I went there and I was a decent student. Like in high school, I was a very poor student. High School. I was a C student. Okay. Like you see mine, I was never good in school by the way. I was really never really good in school. But when I went to college, I made the decision to wanna change that. So my freshman year I got really good grades. I got all A’s and B’s and you know, predominantly A’s. And as soon as I started my entrepreneurship journey as a sophomore my grades started slipping and for good reason. So Yup. After high school I went to college just like what else supposed to do. And then my sophomore year I started my business. 02:31 Huh. So what really made you want to double down on your education and really improve your grades overall? 02:38 Yeah, so it was just the decision to not be what’s the word? An idiot. But you know, I mean, for me, I always knew that I was smart. So, you know, year after year my, my teachers would say, Oh man, he’s probably one of the smartest kids we have in the class. Just never really puts in any effort, doesn’t apply himself. That’s what they all say, you know. But I always say the education system is like, you know, having five different animals. And the contest is who can climb the tree the fastest, you know? Yeah. So you may have a whale and you may have a little chip. And as, although the whale may be more, you know, productive, so to speak in society, but you know, the chimp is going to win that contest no matter what. So you know, I just decided that, you know what, I’m going to do whatever I’m going to do. I just wanna I just want to do something. I want to apply myself. I want to, you know, give at least effort. 03:32 So what did you study in Undergrad that started to kind of stoke your interest to where you were willing to put that extra work to go from being a c student in high school to an a and B student when you started college? 03:45 Yeah, so my freshman and sophomore year I majored in psychology and social science education. So I, I specifically focused on history, psychology and philosophy out of the social sciences. And I always tell people, if you want to be an entrepreneur, don’t go to business school. Get an Undergrad in psychology or get an Undergrad in sociology. Don’t, if you want to learn, I’d be a good marketer. Don’t go to marketing school, don’t take any marketing classes. I was a business major the last two years in my college before I dropped out. I learned absolutely nothing. Because in a world where, you know, we’re constantly evolving and for you as an entrepreneur, you’re called to go against conventional wisdom and beat the crowd, so to speak. Ingesting the information and going all in on the information that everybody else invest is not, you know, I mean, imagine drinking from, you know, the same, well the same pool of water that everybody else drinks. 04:53 It’s gonna be pretty dirty water. Definitely. You know. So I always say, if you want to be a successful entrepreneur, don’t major in business. Don’t, don’t, don’t. If you want to be a great marketer, don’t major in marketing. If you want to be a great marketer, study sociology and if you want to be a great entrepreneur, study psychology is what I is what I tell people. But yeah, major at initially my first two years and social science education and in the last year or two, majored in business and then I dropped out. 05:20 Hmm. So you start as a freshman, you’re studying sociology, psychology, all these different, more social science type majors and type classes. What did you start to learn that really transferred over well into your entrepreneurial escapades or your entrepreneurial journey as a sophomore? 05:39 Yeah, so I, I initially majored in those things my freshman year because my initial plan actually was to be a teacher. My initial plan was to be a high school teacher and also coach basketball. Okay. I learned that with, with those topics. As I was going through those classes, I loved the classes. I was on the actual subject, but I hated my education classes. And I quickly realized I didn’t like kids for children. Then I re I really don’t. So I feel like you’re going to be a teacher. Yeah. Yeah. Maybe it’s not the best thing for a guy like me to be around other people’s kids, you know, eight hours a day. So I made the switch and I gotta say the skills that really help me translate towards my entrepreneurship journey is just knowing not to be a prick. You know, like Ashley knowing to be a good person and treat people well and to be a good listener and Ashley Reed people and the ability to work with individuals. What makes them drive, what makes them tick, what motivates them, you know, what are they, what are they truly wanting in life? So that has helped me astronomically, my entrepreneurship journey. 06:47 Mm. And that seems sort of like you said, you have to go against conventional wisdom when you’re in entrepreneurship and when you’re trying to build something for yourself, which is very interesting where most business classes teach on like, oh, this is how you drive the sale. This is how you, you know, get the best deal. And it’s very aggressive. Whereas you sort of came at it from a different approach where you’re more concerned with the human connection and understanding what your, your counterpart needs, whether it’s an employee, whether it’s someone you’re trying to do business with, you’re approaching it from the perspective of, Hey, how do I help you achieve your goals and put in what’s ever best for you. 07:27 Yup. You’re absolutely right. 07:28 So you’re a sophomore in college and you start to, I guess, what got you more interested in entrepreneurship and what made you take that first leap and launch your own business? 07:40 Yeah, so ever since I was a kid I was never a big fan of doing what everybody else was doing. I love being a contrarian. And that’s not good or bad, it’s just, it’s just different, you know, and I kind of looked ahead at what was ahead of me which was, you know, work 40 hours a day and have somebody else be your boss and tell you what to do. And I had three jobs in college and I just hated having a boss. I just hated the fact that somebody else controlled my destiny. And I think I said, you know, relate with a lot of people watching your show. And I say this that at the end of the day, we don’t want, you know, somebody telling us what to do. And I think everybody wants that. It’s just that not everybody has the drive, the will and the courage to want to earn that. 08:30 So, you know, it’s, it’s, it’s something that I’ve, I’ve looked ahead my freshman year and I just kind of asked myself, this is this what I really want? And my brother is a, what I call a born entrepreneur. He is very, he loves risks. And a lot of times a little too reckless, you know, me, I’m much more cautious, so to speak with what I like to do. And so he introduced me to the idea of entrepreneurship and I got engulfed in it and I finally and I quickly realized that I was good at it. I was very good at selling. I was very good at talking to people and and knowing their weaknesses and figuring out what they want. And I just realized I was really good at it. And so I kinda told myself, listen, I’m young, I’m not married, I don’t have any kids. I don’t have any, you know, real responsibility. Why not just why not roll the dice right now? 09:28 Hmm. And that seems again, sort of contrarian because a lot of times when you’re in school, the entire path forward is you’re going to graduate, you’re going to get a good stable job, you save up, buy a house, whereas you’re taking this totally different path toward your future. [inaudible] 09:45 Yeah. I mean, you know, if that’s something that I wanted to experience and I’ll go talk to those people. But, you know, I I mean, I don’t know, I just don’t like experiencing what other people have already experienced over and over and over again. And it looks like a crappy experience 10:03 And it wasn’t the right fit for what you were looking for. 10:07 Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah. Oh, I totally right. Exactly. And, you know, for me it’s just like, and I’m not bashing the people who have a nine to five job and do you know, the world needs that. You know, a lot of people do want that stable income. You know, and I mean, I gotta say the first three years of me starting my business, there are times, or I made you know, 20 grand in one month and there’s times where I made nothing and I’ll work up paying rent and worry about paying my bills. And it’s funny to look at that cause now it’s like, it’s, if I make $40,000 in a month, that’s a bad month for me. You know, that’s a really bad month. If I, if I take home $40,000 a month, so you know, for, for, for me it’s just like I, if you’re working a nine to five job, at the end of the day you’re thinking about yourself. You know, I’m sorry, but that’s just my truth. You know, it’s your, if you’re spending, you know, 40 hours a week at a job, it’s very hard for you to time a defined time to impact other people. So for me, I, I wanted to do something different. I want it to be free so I could use up that time,uto as help as many people as I possibly can. 11:11 Okay. So what did that first entrepreneurial startup or the first company you launched? What was it what did it look like and what was that experience like for you? 11:22 Yeah, so it kind of relates on how I even got into real estate. My brother and I used to run a DJ company. We would DJ for parties, weddings and, but we quickly found out that that’s a very labor intensive business. And we’re making decent money. You know, we’re making like $4,000 a month as college kids deejaying weddings. Oh yeah, absolutely. In high school homecomings that we had a lot of fun. Right? There are times where, you know, we flew across the country to a state university and we got paid to party with sorority checks. You know, no, that Gig, not a bad gig. Right. But again, it’s very labor intensive, you know. So I started asking myself, well, what are ways where I could have money coming in automatically? Have it be past it. And I quickly learned that it was real estate. 12:06 And so I got into real estate when I was 20. Right. So the DJ business, I did that with my brother when I was 18 and and then the real estate I started at age 20, that my first deal at 22. Okay. So what what was that company launched? You had the DJ company. So then you said your true like entrepreneurial side kicked off in sophomore year. So is that once you started investigating real estate more heavily? Yeah, 100%. Okay. So you take two years, there’s two years before your first deal from when you actually start. What, what did that, two years, what was it like? What, could you walk us through sort of your learning and what you use that two years to do? Yeah. So I purchased a lot of different real estate investing education programs and I basically, what to every conference. 12:59 I read every book. I bought, every program. And so for two years I really just engulfed myself in learning this. And I think that’s a lesson that a lot of, especially young entrepreneurs can take away. A lot of young entrepreneurs, they want things now. That’s why when I look in the world of real estate investing, a lot of the young entrepreneurs want to get into wholesaling. They want to get into wholesaling. They want to get into flipping because it’s cash. Now. it’s very rare that I meet a millennial real estate investor and they want to get into buying and they’re willing to wait, you know, and they’re willing to actually take the steps and do it the right way. It’s very rare. I’m not gonna lie to you. It’s very rare that I need a millennial investor that’s like that. I was of that notion for me, I wasn’t interested in making quick cash. 13:50 I never wholesaled a deal in my life. And that’s something that I’m proud of. And I’m not saying that wholesaling is bad, but that’s just what I was not interested for me, I’m very much of a longterm type of guy. You know, I love, I love doing things that five years from now me is gonna thank me for and that’s always my rule of thumb. So for people who aren’t familiar with the terms, what are the key differences between wholesaling, flipping and buying and holding? Yup. So buying and holding is, is exactly what it sounds. You buy a property, whether it be a single family home or an apartment complex asset you hold onto it and do needs of making your income is through the cash flow that’s coming in. So renters paying your rent coming in, fixing and flipping is where you buy a property for relatively a cheap acquisition cost. You add value to it, typically in the form of construction, the form of a rehab, a rehab process, and you sell that asset for more than what you bought it for because of the value. And you make the spread. With wholesaling, what you’re doing is you’re putting a property under contract. 15:02 Okay? 15:04 Just one, no other investor money off that property. So one is you’re buying the asset, you’re collecting the cash flow. One, you’ve flipped the actual property, the other, you’ve flipped the contract. 15:15 Got It. And our stream stepped out for a sec. So real quick, wholesaling is wind. Essentially you’re kind of a middleman. You find a deal for the person who needs it and you get a slice off the top. Once that sale goes through from person a to person B, you’re the little arrow in between. Okay? So you’re a more longterm guy, which is why buy and holds really attracted your attention. So you spend two years digging into real estate, doing courses, conferences, the whole nine. What are some of the things you started to learn about real estate that were somewhat contrarian to what a lot of people believe about [inaudible] 15:51 Real estate? Yes. So a lot of people, a lot of contrarians of real estate investing are the way they are because they either failed in the real estate investing world or number two, they seen somebody fail. And I think with 2008 and what happened there, a lot of people are of that notion. But you know, you see a lot of people who say the same thing about stocks, about bonds, about, you know, for me, I invest in real estate because at the end of the day, it’s what I can control. When I put money in stocks and I put 10, 15, $20,000, excuse me, in a company, at the end of the day, I’m not sitting in their board room. I’m not any part of that decision making process of what that company is going in terms of their vision and their direction. When I invest money into real estate, I have control over what’s happening. 16:42 And even as regards to my investors day, I have much more control because you know what? When I acquire investors from my real estate deals, you know, 99% at a time, they have equity in the actual partnership. They have equity in the structure of the deal. So they have a voice, you know, they have control and they also get a lot more benefits than just the cash flow. So, you know, for a lot of people who, who are contrary to real estate investing in bashing them I would make the argument that they just aren’t educated in the field. You know, they, they don’t know the real benefit of what it could bring. And the overall, these don’t know how to really go about it. They, they got suckered into conventional ways done and they must justify their own insecurity. Therefore they will bash individuals trying to create something for themselves. 17:32 Hmm. And you just hit on something that I think runs very, very deep. Not even just in real estate investing, but across the board is a lot of times when you, you’re hating on something or you’re very, very uncomfortable with something, it’s because you don’t know you’re insecure because you don’t, all of the details of what’s happening. And so, like you said, the best way to combat that, for lack of a better way to put it, hatred, is solely by diving in and learning more about whatever scares you. And that’s something interesting that you hit on [inaudible]. 18:04 Yeah. Or, you know, just don’t be a prick, you know, just a route. And here I’d look, I’m the guy that I love seeing other people when, you know, there’s a lot of people entrepreneurs, investors, especially in my industry, you know, and I w I would say I rubbed shoulders with a lot of the top people in the real estate investing world. You know, a lot of them bash people who invest in Bitcoin. You know, a lot of people were saying that it’s a bubble, that it’s, you know, it’s a terrible idea. And for me, I’m, I’m the type of guys like, listen, I will never judge the way somebody makes their wealth. You know, I’ll never judge the way somebody, you know, like I’ll, if anything, the only time will I will judge or bash somebody is because of their character. And we see that in real estate. 18:46 We see that in big coins stocks, right? We see that everywhere, you know, or very poor judgment in their character. So, you know, if somebody is an investor in bitcoin and they’re in the online spectrum and another podcast and they’re all about, oh, bitcoin, that’s Bitcoin, not for me. It’s just like, yeah man, go, go do it. You know, go and achieve, you know, what you wanna achieve. Just make sure you do your research because it is a relatively new concept and we don’t know what’s going to happen. The reason why I like real estate is because, you know, with real estate, if you’re educated and you know what you’re doing, you know that cycle can be, that pattern can be predictable. If you put good people around junior, have a good team and you were educated, you know what you’re doing and you’re, you have integrity, you will do well. It’s pretty much a guarantee that you will do well. 19:36 Okay. So now to kind of pivot back to your story, you’re a sophomore in college, you’re like, hey, let’s do some real estate. You spend two years studying, diving into the weeds, learning in, soaking up all information that you can, and then you finally get your first deal. What did your first deal look like? How did it perform? Walk us through that please. Yup. Yup. 19:57 So the first deal that I bought was a portfolio of books. Got It for my parents. So I don’t know out of out of your podcasts that there’s, I don’t know how many of them up poor. But for the podcast individuals who grew up poor, right? And people who are listening, I grew up more poor than David. So we were immigrants to this country and my parents had absolutely nothing. I remember living in a studio apartment when I was five or six years old with my family. We didn’t have dinner most nights and we live next to a strip club. A rent was three 90. We slept in the car many times because we couldn’t afford pay the heating bill. It was just a rough life. And on top of it, we couldn’t even speak English. So we got no government assistance, no food stamps, no, you know, no Nada. 20:44 Totally isolated. Yeah. Isolated and just very, very hard to live. You know, I don’t know. I to this day, I don’t know how my parents did it, you know, it was, it was the grace of God that really protected us. But you know, it’s, it’s my first deal was a single family portfolio that I gave my parents equity so that it could serve as their retirement. And funny enough, funny enough, I’m actually selling that portfolio right now. Two divested into something else. So it’s, it’s weird, you know, cause I’m selling my first deal I ever did. So that was my first deal. Single family rental portfolio in central line. Okay. And so this isn’t buying a portfolio at age, what, 22 now? Yeah. It’s not an easy thing to do. And did you do it all on your own or did you start to build out a team around that time? 21:38 Yeah, so I started building a team around that time and for me, like it wasn’t hard. Like it was, it wasn’t hard at all. It was rather easy. And what I mean by easy is if you follow the equation, if you do, if you do all the right things, then it’s, it’s, you know, it’s not gonna be, it’s not going to be hard. It’s just, you know, it’s just like riding a bike. You know, when you’re, when you’re five or six years old and you watch somebody ride a bike, you’re kind of wondering, wow, like how can they balance on two wheels that are right in front of each other. And then you, you learn and you got training wheels and you know, you, you have this sphere and then, you know, once you kind of learn how to ride in it, it’s the easiest thing in the world. 22:15 Right? It’s second nature. You know, matter of fact, you know, today with kids, we see them riding their bikes and texting at the same time, you know, so it’s, it’s really kind of just the same thing of where, you know, if you do all the things that you’re supposed to do and you know, you, you’re following the right people then it’s not going to be hard at all. You know, we deem it as hard because it’s funny how human beings whatever, something is different, we classify it as far, but a lot of people who do those things that are different will tell you, you know, what’s hard? Waking up every single morning and going to a job that you don’t want to do. That’s hard. That’s really hard for me. I don’t understand how people do that. That’s really hard. Like people think that I have a hard life because you know, I had this pressure of allocating tens and millions of dollars towards deals. 23:06 That’s the easiest thing in the world. Hard as waking up and working 50 hours a week, knowing that you don’t have freedom over your own life. That’s hard. That’s really hard. I don’t know how people do that. And that’s what’s hard for you versus you know, someone who’s looking for that longterm stability that you sort of alluded to earlier. For someone that’s looking at stability, it’s easy. I think it’s hard for everyone because at the end of the day, you know, is that true stability? Because the fact that somebody else has the ability to walk in your office and fire you and take away your income, I don’t see how that stable, you know, to them and here it’s stable. [inaudible] For someone like me, you know what stable is having control of your, over your own destiny, that’s the most stable thing. Cause you’re going to go down, you’re at least going to go down based on what you did, not with somebody else, you know controls. 24:02 Awesome. So you get that first deal. What did the next couple steps look like? Did you immediately, you know, dive into the next deal? What did, what did that process look like after you secured that first portfolio? 24:16 Yeah, so after I bought that first portfolio and I, I belonged to a lot of networking groups at the time networking groups that met on a weekly basis and, or got around very quickly that this 22 year old kid bought a portfolio of single family houses. And amongst a lot of these networking groups I was by far the youngest person me being 22, I think other than my brother, the next youngest person was at the age of 35. Wow. And predominantly everybody was in their forties, 50s, and 60. Alicia, my advice for young entrepreneurs is spend as May spend as much time with old people as you possibly can. That’s my advice, cause I know a lot of your viewers probably are in college to go out on a Friday night and drink and have fun. I did vacation, so I went to Florida with my fiance. 25:13 A weekend ago. So we were in Florida and she basically had to force me to go cause before that I didn’t vacation for eight years. I think during that eight your time, I went out on a Friday or Saturday night I think three times, three or four times. But for the most part it was in the office til two, 3:00 AM in the morning, you know, and whatever I could, I spent a lot of my waking time hanging out with people who are 40, 50, and 60 years old. I was very intentional about that and that’s the advice I’d give to a lot of college viewers. Yeah, and people who are younger who want to start a business, you know, join as many networking groups as you possibly can and hang out with as many older people as you possibly can as well. That’s huge. 25:57 So word got around, you know, to kind of go back to your question word got around that, you know, this 22 year old kid bought a portfolio, single family houses, and I started attracting a lot of people and once I tracked it, a lot of people, I, I realized that I already had the solutions to the problems that could be solved. So a lot of people started coming to me, for example, with millions of dollars in capital saying, hey, I want to invest with you. I heard a lot of great things. I know you know what you’re doing. I want to invest with you. Well, if you got a couple million dollars in capital, it’s very hard to invest in just single family houses. So I started learning about apartment complexes. And I quickly learned the pros and I became obsessed with the apartment complex game. And about seven, eight months later, I bought my first apartment. I bought an eight unit building and I actually bought it, no money down. So I bought it on what’s called seller financing contract for deed. And I bought it, no money down with no credit checks, no money out of my pocket, literally closed three days after checking out the building for the first time. 27:09 12. And so for our listeners seller financing is basically when rather than going to a bank or anyone else to try and get a mortgage, any traditional lenders, you instead go to the owner of the property and say, Hey, look, why don’t I just get a mortgage with you? I’ll pay you my monthly payments rather than dealing with all the bank. And it seems like that’s what really allowed you to move on this next property so quickly. 27:31 Yeah, absolutely. So, you know, that’s something that I learned very much so, because I was, at the time I wasn’t rich, you know, I wasn’t making a whole lot of money. I think the age I started really making money, it was probably around 23 when I was 23, that’s when I had my first six figure a year. And that’s, yeah, but when I was 22, I, I didn’t have as much resources. So for me, I was like, okay, I need to learn how to, how to buy apartments without, without expanding capitals. And that’s why I also got really good at raising money. Cause I needed help. You know, I didn’t have my own, I own my own capital. 28:09 Yes. So you get that Mexico apartment building using seller financing. So now you’re starting to build out your portfolio. Were you doing this while you were active in school or what really made you decide it was time to walk away from, from your college experience? 28:25 Yes, I did my first deal when I was a junior. When I was at junior in, I’m sorry. No, when I was a senior, when I was senior in college. Okay. And when I was a senior, I was at the point where I was probably arguably making more money than my professors. And I started realizing that what I was hearing from the people who are actually doing deals and actually you know, living this journey of entrepreneurship out in the real world. Cause I think a lot of times college can become a bubble. You know, a lot of people will attend college. It’s their own. They’re all there in their own little bubble. And for me, I saw that as the most dangerous and volatile thing that a young man like me can go through a very false sense of reality. And so I took what the people outside of college told me that people who are [inaudible] making millions of dollars, right? 29:17 Like it was nothing. And then I also heard what my professors were saying and I said, who do I want to become more like, you know, my professors who, no disrespect probably make me around $89,000 a year, or the guy who, if he makes $89,000 in one month, that’s not a good month. Right? So I started listening to kind of, you know more along the lines of what the people outside of college were telling me. And I decided to drop out and just say, you know what? Like, I want to devote 100% of my attention towards this as things don’t work out. I can always go back and you know, I’m a big follower of Christ and it’s something that I prayed for for about a year. And low and behold, you know, God legitimately told me to drop out and it was more than I ever made in my life. 30:10 I’m next to asking my fiance to marry me and also accepting Christ as my Lord Savior. But I a lot of people were not happy about me dropping out and I went to swole where it was very small school. We only had about, I think three or 4,000 students on campus, Undergrad. And a lot of professors were, you know, not happy people called. People told me that I was making a mistake and you know, I even had one person call me a moron, you know, and that person was a professor actually called me a moron. And you know, I laughed. And nine months later, my net worth reached over a million. 30:50 Hmm. And so at that point you really took the steps you needed to take in, rather than focusing on the people who, like you said, were in that bubble. You figured out what the behavior and in what things, people that you wanted to become were doing. So you looked forward to, hey, where are you now? How do I get there versus where are all these people around me now and how do I get there? You took that, that longer term view of saying, do I want this person’s life or I don’t do I want this person’s life? Yeah. And then I also did a funny thing where 31:24 I would visit churches and sometimes nursing homes and I would ask that the oldest person there, what some of your biggest regrets in life work. And some of the biggest regrets in life were you know, it was that I, that I asked them so to speak was that they didn’t take enough risks. You know, when they were, when they were my age and almost every single one of them were saying, listen, you know, you’re 22 now take as many risks as you possibly can before you get married, before you have kids. Cause they’re saying, you will literally have no other time where it says this good for you as it is now. So for me, I really took that advice to the heart. 32:02 Okay. Wow. And that’s a good, that’s just an incredible action to take in. An impressive and incredible perspective to get is hey, your, your at, you know, way further in your life than I am. You’ve done a lot more. What’d you screw up? And having that bit of feedback, it seems was exactly what you needed to take that final leap and to start moving in the direction you wanted to go. [inaudible] 32:28 And I think a lot of our generation, you know, cause I’m only 25, you know and I think a lot of people in our generation, they confuse information with and a lot of times they need to increase their capacity, their mental capacity. And what do I mean by that as well? You know, a lot of people who’ve been through, for example, a lot of people who’ve been through a lot of relationships think that they have a lot of wisdom. They think they’ve learned a lot of things because of, you know, but a lot of times, you know, like if, you know, people say, learn from your mistakes. Well, yeah, I, I, I think that’s true, but it doesn’t mean that the mistakes have to be your own, you know? So for me, like the, one of the things I always did as well because, you know I, I would go to these churches again at these nursing homes and I would find not only the oldest person, but I will find the married couple that’s been married the longest. 33:24 And I would ask them, hey, like, what are some of your mistakes? What are some advice that you would give a young man like me? And my fiance has never been in another relationship. I’m her, I’m actually her very first boyfriend relationship and she’s my second. So I didn’t start dating until I was 23. Okay. because, and I think here’s another really golden nugget that I could give to our viewers. It’s not a bad thing if you’re in a relationship right now, but keep in mind that the queen, the ages of 18 and 22 it’s actually where your mind neurologically speaking develops the most. Right? So when you’re in the room and between, you know, I think they said like your second and third trimester and also between the ages of 18 and 22 you have a very similar growth capacity in terms of the development of your neurological brain. 34:15 I will make the argument during those years and spend every single waking moment investing in yourself instead of another human being. Because the best thing that you could do if you want to attract the right person is to be the right person. So one thing that I told God when I was 18 and going into school and bought away, I went to a school where, you know, ring by spring was a real thing. Wow. You know, like I, I honestly, by the time when I graduated out of my friend group I was one of the two guys that were still single. Wow. So my friend group, we had about nine or 10 people. Every single one of them were married and, or engaged by the time we graduated. I was the only one of two guys that were single. I was the best man for two weddings before I graduated college CISO, which is a great thing, you know, like I’m super happy for them. 35:04 They’re still one of my best friends. But for me personally, my journey, my Bri, he not everyone else. I focused during those years 18 to 22 and even still today as I’m about to get married, I, I invested in myself because at the end of the day I knew that if I invested in myself and I focused on becoming the right person, the right person would come along and join me. And not only that, I was more interested, you know, I was more excited. You. I though there was, for me, there was way more exciting things in life than just in a relationship and being in a relationship. That’s for me that was just very common. Like there’s more to life than, you know, going out, having sex and getting in a relationship and getting married. Like I think there’s more to it than that. 35:53 Yeah. That’s what drove me. Yeah. And you had heard all these different stories of hey, go big, go risky. Do, do those, those more risky activities that you want to try launching your own business when you’re young and don’t have all the connections and you focused on what you could do now versus you know, the traditional path again. Yeah, absolutely. You know, and I think at the end of the day, I tell people all the time to biggest, the biggest hurdles to your success is not what you know is not your connection. It’s the human desire to want to be right and look good at all times. And I think a lot of our young people in this Instagram world, you know, in this world of, you know, tweets, you know, text world I think our, our drive is that we want to uphold an image that we want to look good and be right. 36:48 Me, even today, I have no interest in looking good. Right. I wear this shirt probably four days out of the week, you know, like I do not care what other people think about me. I still drive my mom’s old Toyota Corolla. Nice. Seen, you know what I mean? Like, yeah, I do. You know what I mean? Like it’s, it’s my best, it’s my favorite car in the world. Yeah. It’s super gas efficient. You know, it’s nice. It’s got a great sound system, you know? No, I still drive my mom’s old 2011 Toyota Corolla, you know, and I make a good, I make a lot of money. I’m not going to put a number on it, but I make a lot of money, you know what I mean? Like I have enough money to buy a Lamborghini, so like, you know what I mean? But it’s not where your interests lie. 37:33 Yeah. You know what I mean? And at the end of the day, you know, there’s a very famous pastor named Rick Warren and he says, people are strange, right? He says that people will buy things with money they don’t have. Right. things they don’t need with money. They don’t have to impress people. They don’t even like, and that’s so true. You know, in our, in our generation especially. So my biggest advice, my third biggest advice, I don’t even know which one, you know, to, to a lot of our young listeners is, you know don’t, don’t have this notion of being right and looking good at all times in the world of business. You only have to be right one time. That’s it. Yeah. Love it. So you get your first couple of deals, you walk away from school, you realize that’s not the right fit for you. You, you determine ultimately decide that going your own way as the right path. 38:23 What if, what’s happened since then? Can you kind of walk us through, you know, that decision to leave and go all in on real estate to where you’re at today? Yeah. So I just go wherever God tells me to go and all honestly. So, you know, I started doing a lot of deals and [inaudible] a large portfolio and I started focusing on networking. So I met, you know, I met two billionaires in my life, so I met Mark Cuban. And the other bill in there I met, I don’t even know his name, but he made more money than Mark Cuban by far. And I honestly can’t tell you what his name is, but he made his money in manufacturing. Okay. And I had a conversation with him and I asked him this question because I was very tempted to ask him that. I was, I asked him, you know, there’s a lot of people who want to be where you’re at right now. 39:05 You know, why are you a billionaire compared to other people who are millionaires? And the guys says, listen, millionaires focused on ideas, execution, business plans, stability, whatever. I focused on one thing my whole entire life and I was networking. I just focused on people. As long as I focused on the people, I can identify the problems and when identified the problems, I could provide the solution. If I provide the solutions, I provide the value. If I provide the value, I make a crap ton of money. You know, it’s a very simple equation. So I, I’ve been following that equation for the last two years now and it’s worth it’s worth. Yeah. 39:40 Awesome. And so I think that’s kind of a good point to move into the second portion of our conversation and really kind of reflect back. I know you’ve shared a lot of nuggets of wisdom throughout our conversation so far. But let’s kind of zero in on what some of the key takeaways have been from your career, your projects, and your experience. 40:01 Okay. Yeah, let’s do it. 40:03 So give us one or two of them. I know you mentioned a few throughout, but it seems like really networking and being able to connect with people is one of the major things you’ve picked up on. 40:17 Yeah. So yeah, you did cut out a load. But I think I, I think I understand that just as your question. Yeah. I think one of the, one of the biggest things that I’m proud of right now is our youtube channel. Because not only do we have, you know, about 50,000 subscribers, but the fact that I get to post content and I get to do it for free that’s awesome. You know, now people treat information free versus if they’d pay for it very differently. I find that if people pay for the information, the, the success rate is much, much higher. And that’s the reason why I started an education company about nine months ago. So we had our youtube channel for three years, you know, close to free content. But I started a tradition company with my brother about nine months ago. 41:05 The success rate for people who pay for the information versus people who get it for free astronomically different night and day. Right. I mean my, my buddy literally in the other rooms, one of my best friends, he runs a credit repair business and a business funding this. I’d love business [inaudible] he did a little experiment. He offered free credit repair on his Facebook says free credit repair. Yeah. 13 people commented on that status saying that they want free credit here. Jess, how many people actually followed up with my buddy to actually get that free credit repair? My guess is to zero, right? Zero nobody followed up. Yeah, because they, they did an exchange value with some sort cause it’s like people will complain all the time. By the way, I have the cheapest real estate investing education program out there for what we teach. Right? Like what, what most people charge 20 grand, 50 grand, 70 grand for the information that we’re getting, we’re selling, we’re selling it for 500 bucks. 42:01 Right. So for me, like that’s literally the bare minimum I could charge people to where they will actually take it seriously and want to put that foot forward. You know, like I hear the cool all the time. You know, a person is wonderful. A person is great. A person who is compassionate, a person that’s logical, people are the most ignorant and the most self-serving, selfish individuals in the world. Right. So for me, you know, I, I put a lot of free content. I coached people for free many, many years, but I found that when people actually pay for information, the success rate is significantly higher because they get more skin in the game. They got more skin in the game. Exactly. Okay. So what are some of the other kind of key takeaways and experiences that you would want to share with a younger version of yourself? 42:49 You know, what, if I were to talk to the 18 year old version of myself, man I, I’d probably just give him a hug. There’s, there’s, there’s nothing you can tell that kid. Hmm. No, I’d give him a hug. I’d be like, man, this guy, why do you have a ticking time bomb over here? But yeah, you know, I, I probably just give them a hug just enough to say like, hey, you’re going to be all right, kip. Yeah. Yeah. Love it. So what have been one or two books or resources that have helped you in your journey? So many thinking grow rich. You know, because I say entrepreneurship is not about what, you know, it’s more about who you are. So thinking grow rich, the big one. Here’s a book that now a lot of people talk about cause you know, thinking, grow rich rich step where like everybody talks about those books. 43:40 Yeah. Eris right. I’ve read all of them. The book that not a lot of people talk about, and I think it’s the most valuable skill that you could ever have, which is selling is a book called pitch anything. It’s my guy named Orin cloth. No one’s ever heard of him. Like he’s not up there with like Jordan Bell for like grant Cardone or titled. But in my opinion, arguably one of the best salespeople that I ever received any training from or read any book, like I’m talking in general, arguably probably the best book that I’ve raised on, I, I’ve read on how to raise capital, how to pitch a deal. Phenomenal stuff. And I know he’s got a new book out called flip the script. I’m actually about to read it today. Really, really, really cool stuff. Awesome. Love it. So thinking, grow rich and pitch 44:32 Anything, is there anything else in your story that you would like to share? 44:39 No. If anything, I would, I would like it if people were to be a part of my story, you know, and they can do that by, you know, subscribing to our youtube channel. They can do that by checking out a lot of our free resources. So it will, when it comes to real estate investing besides me and another buddy named Joe, I don’t like, we like, I don’t see anybody else giving out the amount of free content that we give out. Know, now, don’t get me wrong, like jurors, that upper echelon, the upper 20% that we charge people for because those are dedicated towards the people who are willing. 45:15 Yeah. 45:18 Day Games and next level. But I understand that there’s people who just want free information for now and that’s okay. That’s completely okay. You know, everybody’s journey is different. I started at 18, somebody might, it might be better for them to start at 31 or 49. I need kernels. Colonel Sanders didn’t even start to lose 65. You know, it’s absolutely, it’s more about timing than it is about speed. You know, it’s like that in a lot of different things. Right. But you know, they, they can get connected to my story, the clock or the DOTCOM. So you mentioned owner financing, which was my number one way of buying property still is today. I actually put out a free 90 minute class masterclass on owner financing. It’s completely free. You don’t have to pay for it. And in that class, not only do I go into how to buy properties, no money down and teach you how to negotiate. 46:07 I actually bring in a very special friend of mine who is a CPA and a tax professional and she goes over the ins and outs of seller financing and attacks aspects of it. So go to free owner financing That’s free owner financing It’s literally a free 90 minute course that we put together and I would argue that it’s the best class on owner financing that’s out there. I, I, I have my ear pretty close to the ground when it comes to real estate investing education. I don’t, I don’t see any other guys putting stuff like this out there. It’s really phenomenal. What we’ve put together. I’m really proud of our team. 46:45 Awesome. Love it. Well Daniel, it has been an absolute pleasure chatting with you. Thanks for coming on the show. 46:50 Thank you man. Thanks for inviting me. 46:54 That does it for our show with Daniel clock. Now I really liked Daniel’s story because he hits on something I have found is very important in business. Don’t be a dick. A lot of times we hear that business is a winner take all type environment. But that’s just not the case. Each one of us is playing a different game and there is no reason at all why we can’t win. You know, if you’re playing checkers, I’m playing chess, why can’t we help each other? If ultimately it benefits both of us. There’s a lot more room for collaboration into address the needs of others rather than simply, hey, I’m the only one that can, when there’s not enough room at the top, there’s so much space and so much opportunity that once we define what success is for us, we can help each other collaborate and ultimately build toward our individual goals without taking away from each other’s success. 47:46 It’s not a zero sum game. We can each thrive and survive without taking away from the other. Daniel also points out that a lot of what we interpret as being hard is actually just different. It’s new, it’s totally foreign and the best way to overcome our apprehension is to learn as much as we can about the topic and then gain experience working with it. It’s not hard. It’s just different. It’s new. We haven’t been there. It’s foreign to us and so unless we take an approach of being willing to learn, we’re going to constantly see that as an obstacle and see something that’s different as a threat to our existence rather than following the advice of those around him. In College, Daniel rather looked toward those who were where he wanted to be. He looked toward real estate investors, older professionals that were in the direction that he wanted to go and he learned from them rather than from people who had experienced that didn’t match what he was looking for out of life and ultimately that led him to leave college because he found a path that better suited his interests and needs and skills than the traditional college career path would. 48:55 If you’ve been enjoying the show, please drop a rating or review on whatever app or platform you listen to it on. That just helps me get a sense for how I’m doing and what I can do to make the show better. If you have any questions or specific comments and concerns, feel free to drop me a line. I am you can also reach me on Instagram. I’m much more likely to respond there. My handle is at Ben Dot Trela and feel free to reach out if you have anything you think I should dive into from tastes for tenacity, show number 19 this is Ben Trela. Thanks for listening.

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